Totally agree!!

While I would have preferred it if Japanese actresses had appeared in the film (there’s that little thing called ‘cultural appropriation’ that has nothing to do with racism), it’s not like this is the first time ‘Memoirs of Geisha’ has been the center of controversy. According to Wikipedia:

After the novel was published, Arthur Golden was sued by the geisha he worked with for defamation and breach of contract. According to the plaintiff, the agreement was supposed to be total anonymity for the main character of his story. This was because there is a code of silence among the geisha community and breaking that code is a serious offense. Once the plaintiff’s name was printed in the book, she received numerous death threats and requests to commit seppuku for dishonoring her profession. However, she opted to sue Golden for putting her name in the novel. The case is currently under litigation.

Thanks, everyone, for your good comments. I just wanted to get a discussion going. Take it from here!

Of the people I’ve heard complain about this aspect of this film, not one has been Japanese.

overoften, no no, when the producers screened some segments from the film in Tokyo this summer to Japanese newspaper and TV and film critics, the Japanese were unanimous in dissing how Hollywood has handled the casting…..

As for me, just me, I think my enjoyment of the movie, when I actually see it (point well taken, above!) will be diminished by the casting. I know they only chose the Chinese women because they could offer a bigger box office, not for their acting skills versus the acting skills of any Japanese actresses. It was purely a box office decision, to get funding and distribution for the movie. Money should not rule culture. Hollyood has fucked up the world already enough! Enough already!

IMHO.

But it WILL be hit movie, just because the marketing campaign will be so powerful and it will win Ocars nommies and the actresses will be on the gossip pages and all. As storytelling, the movie will be good.

But hey, when does all this Hollywood stupidity stop? If you have never lived in Japan or China, then you will accept the casting as legit, an Asian face is an Asian face. But for people who have lived in either China or Japan, seeing Chinese women trying to pretend to be Japanese geisha … well, I saw the trailer on CNN the other day, and it was laughable. Just my two yen on this.

I am not complaining. I am just kvetching.

I hope this discussion here goes global and we get lots of feedback from others around the world.

As for the book being written by a non-Japanese, non-woman, good points above, too! Arthur Golden should rot in hell…

One more note: yes, Italian actors can play French roles, and French actors can play Russian soldiers, and Jewish actors can play Christian roles, yes yes yes. And Chinese actresses can play Japanese roles, yes yes yes. But in this movie, it just doesns’t work. Wait until you see what I am talking about. It is really laughable.

Anway, this is just to get a discussion going. I feel I am right for me. But everyone will have their own feelings and opinions, and they are all correct, too. I think this movie, when it comes out, will generate heated discussions across the blogosphere on the casting deal here.

What I saw so far, on CNN the other day, made me think about all this, that’s all. I may even be completely wrong…..

QUOTE WORTH READING:

At least one Asian actor balked at taking part.

“Since it is a film by Steven Spielberg and Rob Marshall, I first thought maybe I should just close my eyes tight and just do it,” said Kim Yoon-Jin, a Korean-American actress now starring in the U.S. TV drama “Lost,” who says she was offered — but turned down — a supporting role in “Memoirs.”

“Even if it is Hollywood, I don’t want to start by playing a Japanese geisha,” she told the [South] Korean media. “It’s a matter of pride.”

Marshall says he was encouraged by the reaction of the Japanese media to the movie after he and some of the cast gave a news conference in Tokyo at the conclusion of filming. He showed a few clips from the movie and described the reaction as “unbelievably supportive.” [SO HE SAYS...]

[But] there was some grumbling about the preview clips in Japan’s combative large-circulation weekly magazines, whose reviewers picked apart “mistakes” they said damaged the film’s authenticity. In particular, they complained about a scene where a young girl is whipped by a geisha, something experts say never happened during that period.

“Well, I’m doing a version of the book,” Marshall says. “And in Arthur [Golden]’s book, they were whipped.”

The argument about historical authenticity is also an interesting one.
Most of us realise that movies are entertainment and nothing more. But I baulk from saying “all of us” since walking out of Stone’s “JFK” to hear someone say “I’ve always said it, and that proves it!”
The power of movies over people’s perception of history is something that can’t be overlooked, yet is something that movie-makers seldom take responsibility for, so often demuring with “It’s just a bit of fun”. For you maybe, Mr Director.

But back to the casting issue, Danny. I kind of know what you mean, and though I’ve read the book, I don’t think I’ll be going to see the movie, because I don’t think I can suspend my disbelief to the extent of taking Zhang Ziyi to be Japanese. I already know she’s not. With an unknown they might have got away with it (though if they were gonna do that, they could easily’ve gone Japanese…)
Hmmm… I see my position shifting…

Oh, actually the book says that. But even so…

it’s not disrespectful. How many greeks were in troy (lessee, a bunch of anglo american/brits/australians)? How many mediterran actors were in gladitator (lessee, a bunch of anglo american/brist/australians)? Didn’t Elizabeth Taylor once play the egyptian cleopatra? Hollywood always does this. It’s a fictional story filmed on a set, nothing is real. Get over it.

http://www.dreamworksfansite.com/geisha/official_japan_teaser.php

here is the trailer, everyone!

I’m astounded by the reactions on this board.

Is ethnicity the ONLY VALID factor in considering who shall be cast? Should the studio then have instated racially exclusionary criteria with regards to hiring?

Besides the roles being Japanese, no one else has listed any valid factors to argue against casting non-Japanese for Japanese roles. The list of complaints so far mentioned are ridiculous; accent, ethnic hair (???), body language, etc. All of these (except for the hair perhaps) can be easily addressed with proper training. Additionally, why would any Japanese women be more suited to playing a geisha than another Asian person? Geisha require years of training, and no Japanese woman could pull of such a role without the proper training.

Moviemaking is about suspension of disbelief, yet ethnicity seems to be something people are unwilling to ignore. You already see Zhang Ziyi as Chinese, and nothing else. You do not see her as an actress, playing the role assigned to her. Her ethnicity, not her talent is what is first and foremost what you choose to dwell on.

It boggles my mind to think that in most movies no one pays attention to such details when the actors are Caucasian, yet when the actors here are Asian, they are somehow held to greater scrutiny and a much stricter standard. Hollywood is somehow butchering everything in sight. Westeners are not ethnically typecast, so why should Asians be? What is the valid and acceptable reason other than simply ethnicity?

If there any faults, then it has to lie in how the actresses were prepared for their roles, and not in the fact that somehow being Chinese means that are automatically ill suited for ever playing a Japanese role.

In all honesty, this kind of exclusivist mentality is what I feel, prevents most of Asia from ever drawing closer together. There is an overwhelming need to scrutinize difference and to set one’s own ethnicity apart, far removed from all others. Although Geisha are indeed a culturally significant part of Japanese traditional culture, probably requiring a higher standard of acting and nuance, the reasons given for excluding non-Japanese from the roles hardly reinforce anything but racism.

Danny,

Actually I’ll have to agree with you on that point. Wrong accents really do grate on you after a while, especially when you hear it over and over again. Even the best acting skills cannot cover something as annoying as a bad accent.

I have no plans to see the movie though. I had some problems with Golden’s characterization of Japanese culture, so although I did enjoy the book, it was more of a BLEH thing for me.

Anyways, I do think they should have chosen actresses with more of a background in traditional Japanese culture. I just feel that exclusionary, ethnicity based requirements are not exactly something people should revisit.

everlasting,
i am glad we see eye to eye more on this now. accents are cool, we all have them, but the WRONG accents in the WRONG characters’ mouths just SOUNDS, well, stupid, and as you say, grating. Yes, GRATING, that is what those accents in the trailer sound like. But they won’t sound GRATING to people who have never lived in either China or Japan, so MOST Americans and Brits will not even NOTICE. I am sure that director Rob Marshall did not even notice either. That is what is so SAD.

A link to the trailer in question has been added at the bottom of Danny’s article.

Casting one Asian ethnicity as another is standard practise in Hollywood. Go look at the cast list of Margaret Cho’s “All American Girl”, which was supposed to represent a Korean family. Half of them are Japanese, the other half Chinese. Cho is the only obvious Korean in the lot.

If you let this kind of stuff interfere with your ability to enjoy a film you’ll never be happy. There are things to get upset about and things to let go, and this is definitely one to let go.

Political correctness run amuck or pretentious Orientalism? Magic 8 ball says both!

There are two principal factors that many have used to bemoan this movie, I will address the technical first. The use of non-Japanese actresses is irrelevant to this issue, because the main qualifier on being an actor is their ability to convey emotion and diguise themselves as someone they are not, e.g. acting. Race is a non-issue because the primary/only requirement for the actor is to be able to fulfill a role. No rule exists which states only a particular actor of a certain race/nationality can play a role of that aforementioned race/nationality. Simply because any such rule is flat out ludicrous. We no more expect a Scottish actor to play Macbeth than we expect that only a Danish actor can take the lead in Hamlet, why make the case for exceptionalism here? Being Japanese does not by virtue make an actresses more suitable for the roles in Memoirs of a Geisha anymore than being from Swaziliand. In this case, a young Japanese actress is likely to have far more in common with a young Chinese actress than either would with an historical courtesan. As I stated, the role of a thespian is to take on the facade of someone else, and convince the audience that they are something they are not. If non-Japanese actors are not allowed to play Japanese roles by virtue of not being the proper race, should not this rule be universally true when applied to actors of all nationalities. From now on, anyone who plays the role of any Roman must be Italian, English actors must play English roles, French actors must play French roles, and American actors must play American roles. WWII film extras; all German soldiers must actually be Germans! Does this sound the least bit inane? Well it should. As for the sensitivity of the casting agents behind Memoirs, their first casting location was actually in Japan. The problem? They didn’t find any suitable actresses of proper talent or recognition available(thats not to say there aren’t any in Japan, but that Spielberg and co couldn’t find any for this particular role).

Hollywood has a history of using a diverse cast in creating cinema focused on a foreign culture(and likely an equally prolific future) with some remarkable successes. I think everyone has heard of movies such as The Good Earth or the Joy Luck Club, both of which are generally regarded as great Cinema. It was no problem when a mix of caucasian and asian actors were used in The Good Earth because the acting was superb as the essence of storytelling was maintained(The leading actress was so good, she won an Oscar for it despite being authencity handicapped in playing a Chinese woman). The same was also true of the Joy Luck Club where a gamut of Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese-American actresses filled roles of certain Chinese characters. Was their non-Chineseness enough to detract from what was otherwise a drama about the different lives of older women and their modern daughters? Not in the least. Memoirs of Geisha, at the core level is likewise, not a grand historical or cultural narrative or documentary, but rather a romance story that gained prominence for its exotic locale. For all those Hollywood naysayers, it is not only American cinema that regularly uses actors of varying backgrounds for particular roles but everyone. For example, the Japanese film The Silk Road used an entire cast of Japanese actors to play Chinese characters, obviouslly this even more culturally “insensitive” than Memoirs of a Geisha but you know what? It wasn’t a big deal.

I can’t wait until after the release of the movie to hear all the big-nosers go “Gosh, that geisha girl is the hottest Japanese chick I’ve ever seen!”

Has anyone seen the Korean flick JOINT SECURITY AREA? With Lee Young-Ae playing a Korean Swiss national with heavily Korean-accented english and then busts out in perfect Korean? We had a similar discussion about this on The Marmot’s Hole. Read here.

“Diary of a Comfort Woman?”

…Chinese women working as sex workers in Japan. Could that have been the title of the original script? Would explain the casting.

Casting one Asian ethnicity as another is standard practise in Hollywood. Go look at the cast list of Margaret Cho’s “All American Girl”, which was supposed to represent a Korean family. Half of them are Japanese, the other half Chinese. Cho is the only obvious Korean in the lot.

Bruce A,
Thanks for the post. As I later explained, I am not against cross-casting, it is perfectly okay IF the actors and actresses who are cross-casted act authetically and speak authentically. In this movie, which by the way is being titled SAYURI in the Japanese version I have heard, and not MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA (why the change in titles for Japan? Anyone guess?), in this movie the Chinese actresses act well, they are professionals after all, but it is their ACCENTS in ENGLISH, as I have said above again and again, that ruins the film you are watching. Most people agree with me on this. (SMILE):grin:

Example: it would be like having a Spanish actor speaking English with a Spanish accent, when he or she is playing a French or Italian or Russian or Norwegian character. The cross-casting would be okay, the faces and body language are not that big an issue here, it is the accent of the Chinese-speaking actresses trying to pretend to be Japanese. If would have been much better for Hollywood to have dubbed this movie, with the same actresses, if they want the big box office appeal from the Chinese girls, and they will get it, but if they dubbed their voices using Japanese-accented English actresses as the voice-overs, that would be cool. I hope Rob Marshall is reading this, and will do as I suggest.:grin:

How is it a Myth Danny? Spielberg afterall did not in the end direct this film. Rob Marshall did and he specifically stated in an interview that he did not find any Japanese actresses that fit his criterion. If he instead opted for more well known Chinese actresses for their name recognition, how can you actually fault him for this. The movie industry is a business afterall, not a charity for connoisseurs to have their every quirk granted. The director selects a lead actress to draw a wider audience. GASP! SHOCK! HORROR! I can’t believe anyone tolerates such an abomination. Guess what though, its standard operating procedure for EVERY professional film maker. That you can’t get beyond this simple fact is because as I first mentioned raging Orientalism; a towering inferno of narcissitic Japanophilia that burns away reason and instead leaves a hollow fetishization of banal minutiae. I’ve seen its like before, I’ve read one comment from some Japanophile would stoutly maintained she would boycott this film because the way Zhang Ziyi held her umbrella wasn’t “Geisha-like” enough. Enough is enough, if you don’t want to watch this movie because financial issues were involved in the casting, thats fine. If thats the case, you should stop watching movies and television altogether. If you don’t want to watch this movie because of irrelevant details that 99.99% of the remaining audience wouldn’t even notice spoil your romantacist fetishization of all things Japan… well then get help. Leave the country, eat a hot dog, just say no to otakudom.

In response to Jing’s comment here:

There are two principal factors that many have used to bemoan this movie, I will address the technical first. The use of non-Japanese actresses is irrelevant to this issue, because the main qualifier on being an actor is their ability to convey emotion and diguise themselves as someone they are not, e.g. acting. Race is a non-issue because the primary/only requirement for the actor is to be able to fulfill a role. No rule exists which states only a particular actor of a certain race/nationality can play a role of that aforementioned race/nationality. Simply because any such rule is flat out ludicrous. We no more expect a Scottish actor to play Macbeth than we expect that only a Danish actor can take the lead in Hamlet, why make the case for exceptionalism here? Being Japanese does not by virtue make an actresses more suitable for the roles in Memoirs of a Geisha anymore than being from Swaziliand. In this case, a young Japanese actress is likely to have far more in common with a young Chinese actress than either would with an historical courtesan. As I stated, the role of a thespian is to take on the facade of someone else, and convince the audience that they are something they are not. If non-Japanese actors are not allowed to play Japanese roles by virtue of not being the proper race, should not this rule be universally true when applied to actors of all nationalities.

I agree that hollywood has used races other than the one being portrayed in many films. I also agree that the job of an actor/actress is to embody the role of the character they are playing. However, this particular film focuses on, and is portraying a deeply ingrained component of Japanese culture. Therefore, the appropriate choice would have been for a Japanese actress to portray this portal to Japanese culture.

Dear Travis
Although the movie is based on a fictional book, the subject is not. The Joy Luck Club by Amy Tam is a story centered on mothers and daughters, and the movie uses many different Asian actresses that are not of Chinese background to portray Chinese characters. The major difference between these two movies and why casting a Chinese actress has been such a debate is the subject of this movie, which is about being a geisha-a large part of Japanese culture. Subsequently, when something that is so culturally ingrained, is being portrayed by a different race (whether it be Caucasian, African American, etc) it causes a sense of dissonance and misrepresentation. Imagine, if someone produced a biography about you that was going out to millions of viewers, and the director chose another race to play you. I’m sure, that although the actor may be brilliant, there is something to be said about ethnic background. Although we all try to be color-blind now days, being able to identify and know where you come from is important to knowing who you are in this world. If you’ve been to Japan you would understand that being a geisha is all about subtleties, some of which are deeply ingrained in Japanese culture. Therefore it is the feeling of dissonance and disregard of something that cannot be manifested in words-something that a particular set of people experience and identify with that is being misrepresented for millions to see. Imagine if a Caucasian were to portray an African in a movie that was depicting all the different aspects of Kwanza. Would that not cause dissonance?

Interesting. NOW the producers are putting out PR like this, using lots of Japanese names [see * below] to make it sound more authentic. Maybe it WILL be a good movie, after all?

QUOTE:
Directed by Academy Award nominee Rob Marshall, ”Memoirs of a Geisha” is produced by Lucy Fisher, Douglas Wick and Steven Spielberg, from a screenplay by Robin Swicord and Doug Wright.

Memoirs of a Geisha features an all-star international cast including Ziyi Zhang (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), *Ken Watanabe (The Last Samurai), Michelle Yeoh (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon), *Koji Yakusho (Shall We Dance?), *Yuki Kudo (Snow Falling on Cedars) and Gong Li (Raise the Red Lantern).

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=21539

early reviews coming in already!

a pair of reviews on CHICAGO’s Rob Marshall’s next flick MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA. We have a couple different reviews on the flick from a test screening last night. Keep in mind the flick might not be completely done. Here’s the first review, a positive from someone familiar with the original book.

I take it all back. This film will not be a dud. It will be a huge hit. But I still the cast was mis-cast and the accents will ruin the film for some people. Others, as can be seen above, will love it. It will win 10 Oscars!

I fear this movie is going to turn out like The Last Emperor – beautifully shot, excellent music, but painful to watch.

Li Gong is a fine actor, and a truly beautiful woman, but shouldn’t be playing this role. Zhang is trashy and cheap and her voice is so harsh. Michelle Yeoh is ok in HK movies, but she lacks the suttleness for this role. Actually, she kind of looks like a man.

I’m torn between boycotting this movie, and watching it a few times in support of Yakusho Koji and Watanabe Ken.

This movie will probably appeal to the same idiots who found the movie ‘Crash’ enlightening.

Danny, I was in Taiwan, but in Australia at the moment (and wish I was in Japan).

Yikes. I was hoping to be wrong about the movie, but that’s the way things go.

In my opinion, zhang ziyi and michelle yeoh were cast because the american audience is more familiar with those two than other asian actresses. more bankable than japanese names, you know?

Majority of Americans don’t realize how sensitive Chinese, Koreans and Japanese are about the differences among these nations.

Anyway, I wish they had cast Japanese actresses. Zhang ziyi looks weird in a kimono.

It’s funny seeing how riled up people are about Westerners not being able to distinguish between Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese people, cuz in those countries, they’ve got the same attitude and can’t distinguish between Americans or Germans or Russians or any other non-Asian looking person. Maybe it’s a product of the environment in which you grow up in: when you’re surrounded all your life with Westerners or Oriental people, you’re just much better at recognizing and distinguishing between them than with other people whom you never see.

Anyone remember the classic movie “Sayonara”? The main Japanese male character was played by none other than Ricardo Montaban! Its called ACTING, people, and whether the actor and character are of the same ethnic background makes absolutely no difference.

Dear Danny:

TIME magazine is pleased to tell you that excerpts from your letter to the editor re the accents in the Geisha movie will be published in the Dec. 19 issue of TIME. It will be available on newsstands Monday, Dec. 12. Thank you very much for letting us hear from you. I am sure that other TIME readers will be interested in your comments too.

Betty Satterwhite
Letters editor

any time the chinese can get back at the japanese for the rape of nanking i am all for it…

Ellen,
Fantastic post. You said it all well!
Thanks for adding to the dialog here….

DB

“Memoirs of a Geisha” very disappointing

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Review by Josh West

An adaptation of Arthur Goldenâ?Ts acclaimed novel about a young girlâ?Ts rise from barefoot peasant to the most sought after courtesan of her age. Advertisement

At nine years old, blue-eyed Chiyo (Suzuka Ohgo) is taken from her ailing parents and sent to live in a Geisha house where she is to become versed in
the art of seduction. Instantly disliked by the lead Geisha of the house, the vicious Hatsumomo (Li Gong), Chiyo is not permitted to learn the Geisha ways and is forced to become a servant.

While on a house errand, a random act of kindness by a local Chairman (Ken Watanabe) wins Chiyoâ?Ts affection and she becomes devoted to the idea of becoming a Geisha and meeting him again. At fifteen, she is bought buy Mameha (Michelle Yeoh), the leader of a rival Geisha house. There she is finally given the tools to achieve her heartfelt goal. But her love is not easily acquired as Chiyo, now a full Geisha called Sayuri (Ziyi Zhang), becomes the most coveted woman in the
Geisha world.

While â?oMemoirs of a Geishaâ? may be a beloved book, its big-screen translation is, alas, anything but. As a film, â?oMemoirsâ? suffers from painful pacing issues as it attempts to span the majority of Chiyoâ?Ts young life. It drags on for over two hours, not once becoming particularly interesting or entertaining. The plot is little more than waxy soap opera fluff, seen far too many times before, only here disguised as glossy Hollywood drama.

The love story gets lost amongst the telling of Chiyoâ?Ts becoming a Geisha, leaving one to wonder why it even exists at all. The filmâ?Ts dialogue is laughable at times and wildly stilted at others as
characters drone on in a virtual tennis match of banality.

Ziyi Zhang takes an admirable stab at the material, but frequently fails at being charismatic or even intriguing. You never really become engaged in her character and, thus, you simply cease to care. Add to this her complete
lack of on-screen chemistry with Watanabe and youâ?Tre left with a deeply flawed film. Only Li Gong and Michelle Yeoh come away somewhat unscathed, each doing their best with what theyâ?Tre given. Li Gong sneers with disgust
at Chiyo, giving the only decent and salvageable performance in the film. Michelle Yeoh hangs in there as the maternal Mameha, but her deference and cold delivery of the filmâ?Ts dialogue never really allows you to become attached to her character.

Perhaps the most disappointing thing about â?oMemoirsâ? is its willingness to bow to American opinion. Secondary characters become poorly drawn
stereotypes and spout pages full of solemn dialogue about honor and destiny.

What could have been a focused and respectable profile of the life of Japanese women of the night becomes a by-the-numbers romance as director Rob
Marshall (â?oChicagoâ?) uses every trick imaginable to sell you on the importance of the material. Despite some nice set design and a decent John
Williams score, the director simply doesnâ?Tt pull it off.

Make no mistake, â?oMemoirs of a Geishaâ? is middlebrow pap, a potentially interesting tale that becomes a boring exercise in genre clichés. Fans of the book may take interest, but the casual film viewer will likely only find disappointment.
–JW

In the past few months I’ve lived with French, Koreans, Africans, Chinese and Taiwanese. But Japanese are still easiest to understand. I even have difficulty understanding some hardcore outback Australian accents sometimes, and I’m Australian!

あのさあ、日本語も分かるけど、これが信じられません。Give me an African who actually speaks English any day over a Japanese person struggling through a katakana-ized imitation of the genuine article.

My mother was born of Prussian parents, and my father of Irish, and my own life has been subsequently scattered that I am the bearer of three current Anglo-phone passports: UK, US and Canadian. And then just to shake things up a bit I married a German and moved to China. Resultantly, I genuinely find myself with difficulty answering the ‘whadda you’ question with one specific nationality, although people with a deep-seated need to categorise all humans can breathe easily knowing that I can be labelled “white”. But why do people feel so much discomfort in accepting the multiethnicism and multiculturalism that permeates this world. This is in response to a sense that I got from the posts on this site that only those who are Asian or live in Asia can understand the nuances between Chinese and Japanese facial features and those of us who cannot are ignoramuses. But, thanks to the multiethnicity that affects, yes even Asia (China alone has at least 56 ethnic groups) nationalities are NOT as easily distinguishable just by looking at someone as some would pose: my Chinese and Japanese friends just scored the same as me – around average – on the ‘alllooksame.com’ test, and it is worth noting that the average score is also what you would most likely get with random answers. This means that most of us should be able to stand a fighting chance of playing a Japanese Geisha – if we’re good enough actors.

I also don’t feel that Americans should be the only ones beating themselves up about ignorance of foreigners or foreign cultures. My struggle to attain fluency in Mandarin Chinese has rewarded me with the certainty that this type of ignorance exists in all societies. It is part of being human to care more about your family and scraping out a living than the details of the lives of people on the other side of the world. This ignorance is not solely the purview of the Americans. I personally would prefer that everyone spend every waking moment learning more about the wonderful world and people in it (this would probably end all war and suffering) but it’s just not a realistic expectation, things would just never get done.

Also, while I am sensitive to the fact that this American-written book will contain many historical and cultural inaccuracies, I believe it is called artistic license, and I feel that neither the author nor the filmmakers have a duty to provide any sort of real accuracy, as they are creating neither a documentary nor a history book. Just to note also that I do not think the comments about the mutant blue/grey eyes are part of a solely “Western” fantasy as similar attributes have shown up in Asian arts too. Indeed, I have worked with a Chinese man (for those happy-slapping labellers – of Manchurian descent) with bright light green eyes, and he was offered a degree of reverence from his colleagues who whispered to me that his eyes meant he had a connection with ghosts.

Lastly (I promise) I was surprised, after reading through the 4 months’ worth of comments on this site that no one has really addressed the strength of animosity that underlies the Japanese-Chinese relationship and the implications on this subject. Japanese ethnocentrism can be strongest when talking about the “dirty, and stupid” Chinese, and many Chinese cannot forgive the “murderous” Japanese who were responsible for the death of at least one family member during the occupation.

There is more than just the ignorance and racism of the Americans in Hollywood in play here, but rather all the bubble and toil and trouble of a world that hasn’t embraced the prescription of spending every second of every day learning about and loving other people and instead lives in a manner so divisive that we can easily spend 21,400 words discussing the racial impropriety of a movie (MS counted).

After reading Life of a Geisha again(trying to compare it with the movie), then going on line to see people’s comments, then writing some emails to a friend, I again looked at the book.

I then felt that the whole things was intentional on the part of the author. You see the translator’s note, even said the name of the type of professorship he had and the university. I feel, though it served its purpose, this was really unfair to Iwasakisan and to the reader.:!::sad::oops:

I think we are all forgetting that it is just a movie. The role of Jesus in many movies is played by a white man with light brown hair, not a true Hebrew person.

Very magnanimous, Danny. The mark of a man.
I still haven’t got to see it. It’s showing at stupid times here. Like half past ten in the morning and then 4 in the afternoon.

It’s for luck. They do it again for Sayuri and the woman says for Luck. Fire has long played a special role in Japansese traditions as the number of fire rituals show.

thats the extent of my knowledge about the fire thingy
probably luck and money as the two often go together

By the way, one more movie-related question for you Japanese language mavens: in the film, when the narrator reads a letter from the little girl to her parents, in the English screenplay and dialog in the movie, OKOSAN and OTOSAN get translated and spoken as “honored mother” and “honored father”, but I am wondering if the terms “honorable mother” and “honorable father” are more appropriate. Is there a difference?

Friends in Yamagata prefecture tell me this:

”FIRE STRUCK WITH RUBBING STICKS”

This custom is called “kiribi (切り火）”in Japanese.

http://www.d3.dion.ne.jp/~makiuchi/

Finally had a chance to watch the movie. It wasn’t bad, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it good. The Chinese-factor wasn’t as distracting as I imagined. The thing that kept me from actually settling into the movie was the English voices (from Chinese and Japanese alike). I felt like I was watching something made in the 1950s. It was pretty hilarious.

Zhang surprised me, and wasn’t annoying at all. Michelle was pretty good too. Gong Li, who I expected the most from just came off as some “angry Chinese woman” they’d just plonked in the movie. Her voice and her mannerisms were so harsh.

I can’t stop repeating her “WHO?!?!?” so funny.

Overall the movie was exactly what I expected. The Sayuri-Chairman relationship was kind of touching, but nothing life-changing. Music was the usual Yo Yo Ma stuff. He even recycled one track from Last Emperor. Settings were beautiful to the point of being unrealistic. I thought it felt more like Hong Kong than Japan for some reason. There was just too much Chinese stuff going on.

The way they kept inserting random Japanese words into the dialogue was totally retarded. If they’re going with English, they should’ve just stuck with it, or else used Japanese the whole way through. Most of it was pronounced pretty awkwardly.

It’s like when they make Mexicans say “si”, “amigo” and whatever else just to make them sound “Mexican”. If they have a perfect command of the rest of English, wouldn’t they be able to manage to say words like “Yes” and “Friend” as well? hmmmmm…. I just found it funny.

It was also weird the way the Japanese and Western characters interacted. I thought that the movie was made so that we were meant to believe the characters would be speaking Japanese naturally, but English was just used on screen so it would be easier for us to watch….. but then the Japanese characters started speaking to Westerners in English without need for translators and Pumpkin’s English completely changed in her “slutty” stage, using weird slang and some funny accent. So they really were supposed to be speaking English with each other the whole time, even when they were kids?? I just didn’t get it.

It was like some weird surreal world. Kind of entertaining I guess, but just weird and funny, but to me it didn’t seem like a Japanese world, or the geisha world.

It seems like Hollywood is making an attempt to “understand the rest of the world” at the moment with stuff like this and “Crash” *cringe* with movies that totally miss the point and once again prove that we just don’t get each other.

The best parts were seeing Watanabe Ken and Yakusho Kouji. Kakkoii!!

I second An Di’s comment above that “neither the author nor the filmmakers have a duty to provide any sort of real accuracy, as they are creating neither a documentary nor a history book. ”

Let’s put things in perspective here folks. This is a fiction. It would be naive to rely on the movie for an actual account of culture and history. Although I would expect that the movie-makers should not claim it to be a good portrayal of the reality, and they should not be recognized for that. However, I can understand the Japanese and Chinese disatisfaction with the movie for fear of the repurcussions through the IMPLIED, as well as the possibility of inaccurate depictions. It would be good if the producers of the movie made a disclaimer at the beginning of the movie that the movie does not necessarily reflect true accounts – Remember Law and Order?

Actually I’m pretty tired of listening to the argument about the Chinese actors acting Japanese. Have we lost our minds by relying on Hollywood for truth? Save your breadth.

“There’s a lack of controversy when Japanese play Chinese historical characters in plays and movies.”

Name three recent plays or movies from the West in which the main Chinese characters were played by Japanese.

“…or when a Causcasian portrays Madame Butterfly.”

Perhaps you haven’t been keeping up with the latest trends in Western show business (of which Madame Butterfly is hardly representative).

All sorts of people get upset nowadays when Westerners portray Asians.

“I’m annoyed that so much of Japanese culture was borrowed from China a thousand years ago.”

Why should you care? Take it as a compliment.

For example, Westerners would be thrilled if the Chinese borrowed some of their traditional culture.

Such as democracy, free speech, human rights…

I don’t really understand what the problem is. Of course the Japanese role is played by Chinese actresses but what is the big deal.The Japanese culture is basically a variant of Chinese culture I would say after living In China for 1 year in Shanghai. I read many books about the Chinese culture influencing our Japanese people in the Tang dynasty.Our gestures,clothes,and language all came from China , so significantly our culture is almost the same as the Chinese. Our architecture has also been influenced,our clothes were based on Hanfu designs, and our language is a modified form of Chinese.Does it matter if our distant ancestorsthe Chinese play in our shoes after all they created our culture, our language, and our society.Our first capital Yamato was designed from the layout of Chang’an. Why do our people the Japanese don’t understand how much the Chinese influenced us.The Chinese are pretty much our creator who adpoted us and nourished us until we betrayed them because of insecurity and paranoia.

Geisha picked up three Oscars this year, today! Nice.

Well, the author of the book was a man – eh?

What does a man know about the heart and pain of a “lady of the night/” He can pretend and surmise- that’s all.

So the entire thing was presented wrong, right from the beginning.
So right from the get

Danny

None of those oscars were for acting, the film generally, etc. It was costume, art direction and cinematography. I.e. the film was crap but pretty.

Rotten tomatoes gave it 35% – ROTTEN!