No, Study This
Japundit contributor Mike made an interesting observation in a recent post on anime. Essentially, I had written about how the New York Kinokuniya had been reorganized to give priority store real estate to manga and anime. Mike wrote:
I’m very close to people who teach at universities here in Japan and every year a handful of Western students apply to study here. There are more than a handful of young “academics” who cite their reason for wanting to come and experience Japanese culture, as their love for anime and manga. I have to figure that’s an automatic disqualification. It prompts me to think, “Get a life.”
I thought this was interesting, and I will admit that there are times when I feel the same way. I would certainly love to have been a fly on the wall at the meeting where Kinokuniya decided to reorganize its store. It felt a little wierd to find that the cookbooks had been separated from the cooking magazines in order to accomodate so many DVDs and manga. I should also disclose that a couple of years ago I went to lunch with some Japanese publishers; much of the talk centered around how to capitalize on the growing interest in manga, though the publishers themselves did not understand the appeal.
If you spend enough time in Japan, then you know that anime and manga (and video games for that matter) are not necessarily mainstream cultural activities; my favorite travel book even warns travelers against the assumption that all Japanese will share an enthusiasm for these forms of entertainment. Most Japanese people I know consider shared events like matsuri to be a truer representation of Japanese culture. I once had a long talk with a Shinto priest who told me that he believes his job is essentially “to celebrate and preserve the essence of Japanese culture.”
Today I read this interesting article in which a Japanese academic notes the changing reasons why foreigners go to Japan to study. Among his main observations is this point:
The fourth trend is the widening gap between academic works and the public’s knowledge of Japan. Traditionally, there has been a certain intellectual link between academic studies on Japan and the promotion of understanding of Japan in general.
Recently, however, interest in and understanding of Japan has been increasingly divorced from some academic works on Japan. Young people’s fascination with manga and anime has weakened, or at least blurred, the established link between some traditional types of Japanese studies and young intellectuals’ interest in Japan. (This gap may partly be attributed to the growing “fragmentation” or “specialization” of Japanese studies, which may itself be viewed as part of a broader trend in many academic fields.)
Here’s the thing; I wouldn’t want an interest in Japan to be a purely elitist activity that only those who have studied art history and 1000 years of Japanese literature at Harvard or Columbia can enjoy (and for the record, no I am not accusing Mike of supporting this point of view). I remember, for example, some JET friends who came back from Japan disappointed that they did not find the land of Lady Murasaki; Japan turned out to be much more chaotic than the country our classes on Japanese aesthetics had portrayed (these same professors did not want to discuss Japan post 1930, by the way, because by then the war was looming on the horizon and war is ugly). Yes, you can find practitioners of old arts like lacquer making and kimono embroidery, but these things aren’t the focus of the majority of the population. There’s much more to Japan than the classical period emphasized in a lot of university courses.
So, what to do? I think it’s pretty clear that Japanese culture is spreading through fashion, games, media, etc., and that this is how younger adults and kids are first coming into contact with Japan. Ultimately, the optimist in me hopes thatmanga and anime enthusiasts will take the time to discover — or end up discovering — some of the other rich traditions that Japan has to offer the world. Some won’t, but I expect that more than a few will. Like I said, if you spend enough time in Japan, it does become clear that manga and anime are only one face of a very rich culture.
The professor who wrote the article I quoted from seems to say something similar, except that he would like for universities to more actively tie the interest in popular culture to a deeper understanding of Japan’s history:
. . . in order to bridge the gap between academic knowledge of Japan and the influence of manga, anime and other pop-culture phenomena prevalent among young people, we need to create programs that link Japanese studies at university level with high-school curricula in the fields of history and language.
It’s a tall demand to ask anyone to “fully” appreciate another culture or country. Certainly I’ve seen friends from Europe (or Japan) arrive convinced they already understand America based on 1) numerous movies and TV shows and 2) everything they are told to think about America by the BBC, etc. And the thing is, if you want to think that America is one big shopping mall, you can certainly go find that experience. If you want to think that America is a conformist country obsessed with big cars, you can definitely find that experience as well. Stay here long enough, though, and you will also start to notice all the small ethnic restaurants, the non-uniform styles of dress, the urgent public discourse about war, politics, etc., etc.
Finally, I would be curious to hear from people who first went to Japan during the bubble in the 80s and got to know Japan through business. Through repeated trips, I would imagine that many of you discovered that Japan was a more complex an interesting place than “how to say no in business.”
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actually when I think about America the first thing that comes to my mind is “urgent public discourse about war, politics,etc.” Most americans I knew seem obsessed with politics. Never had a conversation about politics with a japanese person, and with europeans only if they’re very close friends.
well, most people who learn Japanese because they love manga quit it in a year or so. There’s no danger of a massive invasion of western geeks; not everybody can learn the language. You need brains.
March 24th, 2006 at 7:04 amWell, if not for anime and manga and Japanese videogames, how or why exactly would the average person become interested in Japan specifically? What would make them any more interesting than any other nation? I hate people who view popculture as a subculture. Its an equally good introduction than any other form of culture that may be inherent to a country or its people. By this logic, it would be unacceptable to become interested in Japan a hundred years ago after seeing some woodcut print advertisements. Maybe Mike needs to get a life… However, if in the end the person doesn’t bother exploring the culture outside of his very narrow sphere of interest, than that is a complete waste, but how often can that possible be the case?
March 24th, 2006 at 9:31 amI got my start on Japan about 30 years earlier than modern otaku kids, so when I was 11 I was being fascinated by chambara movies and stories about my fathers years in Wakayama during the Occupation. And, by golly, when I was first talking about visiting Japan people warned me that not eveyone was a Toshiro Mifune fan.
Then I studied martial arts — “now, not everyone is into zen and aikido”.
Honestly, I don’t think it much matters. If you learn enough Japanese to get somewhere with manga, you’ll learn about Japan too.
March 24th, 2006 at 9:34 am“Well, if not for anime and manga and Japanese videogames, how or why exactly would the average person become interested in Japan specifically?”
Let me count the ways!
“What would make them any more interesting than any other nation?”
If you have a week to discuss it, maybe we could scratch the surface.
“However, if in the end the person doesn’t bother exploring the culture outside of his very narrow sphere of interest, than that is a complete waste, but how often can that possible be the case?”
It happens every day, all around the world.
I was hooked for a while on the comic book Oishimbo, which in fact does convey a lot about Japanese culture, both traditional and modern, but otherwise I usually don’t bother with manga.
The reason that some people don’t take those forms of culture seriously is that they’re disposable. How often does one read a comic book a third time? Repeatedly reading some books, however, will continue to reveal new insights. That’s partly the point–the appreciation of the work changes as one changes through life. And that’s what makes culture art.
Granted, several aspects of Japanese culture were originally thought to be disposable, such as some of the woodblock print artists and otsu-e, but they wound up having a permanence perhaps unintended by their creators.
On the other hand, how many comic books written 30 years ago are still worth talking about today?
March 24th, 2006 at 10:36 am“Most americans I knew seem obsessed with politics.”
Then why is voter turnout always so low in the U.S.A.?
March 24th, 2006 at 11:39 amActually, I am currently in Tokyo to “study manga.” Of course, by now my interest in and knowledge (I hope) about Japan extend way beyond that, but it began with anime and manga. Surely I’m not the only person with that kind of experience.
At this point there’s no way to stop kids from getting to know Japan through its pop culture, and is that such a bad thing? In any case, don’t you want people to really get to know the country? Ignoring pop culture won’t do that for them; using only pop culture won’t do that for them either, but these trends can be used to Japan and academia’s advantage, if you ask me. Popular culture has a context after all, and if you can appeal to someone’s interest in the former, you can get him to appreciate the latter. That’s how the best classes I’ve taken have handled it.
And you’re right about why people don’t take pop culture seriously. But in the past ten years alone the availability of anime and manga in major American chains has exploded. Maybe that means it should be taken seriously.
March 24th, 2006 at 11:40 amI’m not sure what you mean by taking manga seriously.
The business and financial industries take video and computer games very seriously, too, despite their content.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:26 pmManga is now part of the Japanese cultural exports to the world, and it is neither good nor bad. It just is. Manga is. Get used to it, everyone.
Just like the USA exports Hollywoodism around the world, for good and for bad, Japan now has manga to export and the world is eating it up.
Why not? It’s part of modern Japan, and it’s cool. It has become a cultural industry.
March 24th, 2006 at 1:43 pmHello everyone, I’ve been reading this blog for a while and this is the first time I felt like I would bring something to the comments section.
I actually became interested in Japan through anime and manga I was introduced to in middle school, it’s not a bad introduction to Japan really. By the time I was in late high school I was reading up on Japanese history, culture, traditional fashions, and I took up a big interest in Kabuki and Noh. I’m now studying Japanese language in college, and hope to major in East Asian Languages and Cultures with an emphasis in Japanese. If it wasn’t for my introduction to Japan through the means of anime and manga, I’m sure I would have come to find this intense interest in time, but it would have taken me longer to discover it. Am I still watching a lot of anime, and reading a ton of manga? Not so much, but that doesn’t stop me from picking up a graphic novel every once in a while for a guilty pleasure.
Sure the fad here in America is really growing wider and wider, and a lot of teens and young adults have somewhat skewed views of Japan because of it, but for some of those people they’ll eventually start reading up on the culture and go: “Hey! There is a lot more here than just anime and manga.”
Most of the kids I know who are going to go to school who are going to take Japanese so they can move there and live out their favorite storyline drop Elementary Japanese 1. In my Japanese 1 class there was a student arguing with the teacher and the text book because ‘cartoon’ was used in a reference and displayed the characters for “manga” next to it. He actually had a hissy fit over the fact that anime was a cartoon and manga was a comic book, not taking into account both are ‘cartoons’, cartoon animation and cartoon book. The rabid fandom can also be irritating, trust me I know very well, I work for two anime/comic conventions in the Chicago area (Anime Central, and Reactor). I don’t see anything wrong with anime or manga being your starting point for your Asian interests, what bothers me are the people who never get past the phase where all their information on the country is through this form of entertainment because they’re really missing out on a very unique culture.
Sorry for the long post guys.
March 24th, 2006 at 2:20 pmNicely said, Sparky. But just imagine, if it was up to Mike (see Marie’s post) to determine whether you got into the university to pursue that course of study, you’d have been automatically disqualified based on having started with manga since you’re just an “academic” instead of a REAL academic… (For anyone missing the point I’m being sarcastic here.)
I can’t believe the stuffy old snob approach some of you guys are taking to this. Anime and martial arts are what got me interested in Japan (and Asia in general) and the interests spread out from there as I got older. There’s no right or wrong here.
March 24th, 2006 at 3:05 pmSparky and Duo (and Mike, for getting this entire thread started via Marie’s great commentary above):
Yes, there’s no right or wrong here, well said. Whatever gets you in the door.
In my case, it was a woman. Met her in Alaska. Followed her back to Tokyo. Knew nothing about Japan and had very little interest in it….until that moment.
Whatever gets you in the door….
And as for ever getting to “fully know” a country or a culture, nobody can do this, even the local people don’t understand their own country or culture fully…….
this has been a great discussion, above.
March 24th, 2006 at 3:16 pm“I can’t believe the stuffy old snob approach some of you guys are taking to this.”
Perhaps you misunderstand my position. If people want to read manga, fine. If that gets them interested in Japan, fine. But if you attend university and sit in a class to study manga, well, it’s your money.
I’ve read my share of comic books, and as I mentioned before, at least one series was worth the time. It didn’t involve much in the way of study, however. I just bought the books, looked up the words I didn’t know, and noted cultural differences. It was pretty straightforward. Didn’t need a teacher with a Ph.D. for that.
As for “get used to it”, well, that’s kind of funny. I’m “used to” there being a McDonald’s or something similar on street corners everywhere I go. That doesn’t mean I actually go inside and eat any of that stuff. And if people choose to do that, that’s fine by me, too.
Just because it exists and is popular doesn’t make it real food.
March 24th, 2006 at 4:16 pm“Well, if not for anime and manga and Japanese videogames, how or why exactly would the average person become interested in Japan specifically?”
Let me clarify that I’ve been reading this blog for a year now and have wanted to visit Japan for the longest time (finally did last year and will be there abroad next semester), but I’ve never read a single manga or willfully watched an anime on my own. It’s not that I hate the stuff and try my best to avoid it; I just never cared. There’s much more to Japan and Asia than that…seems like you imply it woudln’t be worth getting into without that specific division of entertainment.
March 24th, 2006 at 6:20 pmWant a good reason? Here’s one: the food.
As for comics still being read 30 years later, I can certainly think of a few. Tezuka’s work, and Miyazaki’s Nausicaa. And who would argue the importance of the Barefoot Gen mangas? Disney just released Studio Ghibli’s Pompoko, which is arguably as esoteric as anything else from Japan.
I didn’t mean to say anime and manga is the only reason to be interested in Japan, but if it happens to be the primary reason, why is that such a bad thing?
Because it makes westerners look like nerdy otakus in the eyes of their Japanese peers? …oh, well, too bad for you.
March 24th, 2006 at 6:43 pmI’m currently doing a degree in Japanese in England, and quite a few of my coursemates started to do the degree with a primary interest in anime and manga, but I don’t understand what the problem is with that. If people are doing something to a degree level or a level of high study they obviously have a high level of interest in it, and whats wrong with having the main part of that interest being manga and anime?
March 24th, 2006 at 7:52 pmI don’t understand why there are such high levels of snobbery towards it. Most of my Japanese friends read manga and watch anime (although they probably wouldn’t list it as one of their main interests), and so why can’t most people who are studying the language?
I can understand it being annoying if people think that that is all there is to Japan, but surely that’s just as annoying as people thinking that all there is to Japan is business, or sushi.
Just because people really like anime and manga doesn’t mean that they’re not serious about wanting to learn the language to a high level, or studying the country in general.
I really do not understand this prejudice against those who voice their appreciation of Anime and manga. It does not ‘automatically’ render us unable to enter the academic world. It also, does not make us incapable of appreciating other elements of Japanese culture and life. It is simply unfair and elitist.
:sad::???::???:
March 24th, 2006 at 10:58 pmAnd to say that it is frowned upon because it is disposable, is just ridiculous. How many times to you read a novel after you have bought it?, by that logic all literature would be disposable and pointless. Also, there has been much written about the throw-away culture of the modern world, with Japan leading the way. Therefore by the same token, this argument places all of Japanese pop culture and technology into the realm of trash!
Just my 2 pence worth, sorry if I have just regurgitated what others have said. I’m an anime fan after all I can’t be expected to function coherently
Duo! But . . . we all thought you were half Japanese!
I think that one thing the academic quoted in the article was trying to say is that it’s somewhat difficult to accomodate an influx of students who go to Japan for the sole purpose of studying manga and anime. Since these things aren’t the main thrust of an academic institution’s program of study (if they study it at all), it’s hard to know what to do with students who apply to universities or exchange programs for that purpose alone.
If, say, you were to apply to a university in Japan because you wanted to study “the use of graffiti in anti-war protests during the 1940s” then a university would understand how to evaluate such a proposal — or at least, this is how things worked classically.
The professor in the article seems to be saying, though, that we can’t count on people to want to come to Japan anymore for these kinds of “academic friendly” reasons, and that teachers need to be more creative and open-minded to find ways to interest younger people in many facets of Japan.
And this seems to be what many of you are saying — that you got interested in Japan for one reason or another (a woman, a book, etc.) and then were drawn further into the culture (we have you now!).
I will say I was a little freaked out to see how the store had been reorganized — I guess they are making more of a committment to their American/youthful customers and I’d never thought of Kinokuniya that way before. My initial reaction was; “What? Are you trying to be like Barnes and Noble and Borders? Why?”
Thanks to everyone who posted on this subject, and to Mike for speaking up in the first place. Ray, I am with you about the food. It is a major reason to love Japan. Wah. I’m thinking now of all the meals I’m missing! A big welcome to Sparky Stark — I hope you keep posting. It’s always nice when people come out of lurking. And Paul — they say that voter turnout is low due to apathy. I’m sure that is partly true. But there sure are a lot of people here who yell and complain massively. From my own I think perspective, TPTB need to find a way to make voting standardized and easy, but I’m afraid we are a ways away from this happening.
March 25th, 2006 at 12:17 am“How often does one read a comic book a third time? Repeatedly reading some books, however, will continue to reveal new insights.”
Well, that depends on the quality of the manga. Akira, 20th Century Boys, Blame, Lone Wolf And Cub (great way to discover 17th century Japan btw) and Planetes, are just a few examples of mangas that are able to surprise you everytime you read them. Always something new to discover. Heck, throw Hajime No Ippo and Gantz in that list
March 25th, 2006 at 3:45 amPop culture literature is often a much more fertile ground for academic study than so-called “classic” literature. In general, pop culture is much more reactive to the social undercurrents of a country. When I try to prepare an analysis of a “classic” novel, I usually open up a history book and read about what was happening 10-20 years prior to the publishing date. In contrast, if I’m doing an analysis of a manga, I look at what was going on 1-2 years before the release.
I run a book club at my University, and this semester we did something new by reading a series of manga volumes. We had a great discussion last week on the the reflections that 9/11 and the War on Terror have had on manga.
Bluntly speaking, if you think there is no academic value in studying manga, then you need to work on sharpening your analytical skills. I don’t think there is a problem with making something like anime or manga your main field of study, but rather a problem with the quality of the students. Most people would rather just consume manga than study it. Any student worth a grain of salt should realize that it’s impossible to achieve a good understanding of manga without also studying other aspects of Japanese culture.
March 25th, 2006 at 6:10 amVery interesting post and discussion. I’d have to say that I’m surprised that manga and anime would be considered unpopular in the academy–I don’t know much about Japan studies, but I would think that in America this would be really hot among academics. Not because they’re stupid gaijin who know nothing about Japan, but because this is a great way to understand post-modern narrative, the culture industry and subcultures, and a million other things that are really interesting, academically. Look at it this way: compare, say, the Tale of Genji to Hayao Miyazaki. Which one has only begun to be examined, and which one has been done to death? If you study it right, you can learn a lot from mass culture–so many things fell into place for me when I read Marylin Ivy’s “Formation of Mass Culture” in Andrew Gordon’s Postwar Japan as History–and not just about Japan, either.
The problem I see is that people like that Shinto priest have an outdated and romantic view of the “Japanese essence,” as if there is such a thing. Shinto is just as much an invented tradition as the ninja. Foreigners can be just as guilty in this romanticism (see: The Last Samurai, for example. By which I mean, DON’T see it, it sucks.) People who persist in their interest in Japan, and who advance even a little in academia, get their rose-colored glasses torn off pretty damn quick.
March 25th, 2006 at 6:20 amI cross posted with Tony–I think he’s right on.
March 25th, 2006 at 6:23 amWow, this has to be a record in comments ^_^ With my background, I am obviously in the “pop culture as a route to Japan” school, but I don’t believe this is the only (or the best) route at all. In my SDSU years I had many friends who got into Japanese through many other avenues, e.g. martial arts, the desire to find some nebulous wealth being a business major for its own sake (zzz), love of Japanese women, appreciation for sushi. I met a French guy in Akiba who basically came to Japan so he could hunt around Tokyo to find the classic bishoujo games of the 1980s (we’re talking PC98 here, gag). Yet another friend of mine is the leading foreign Lafcadio Hearn scholar in Japan, and has just gotten his doctorate. Who is to say what the best route to Japan is?
One thing is for sure though, every fanboy needs to realize that Ultraman and Touch and Macross (or whatever your fancy) is just one aspect of Japan, and that you need to branch out eventually. To paraphrase Emperor Palpatine, “If one is to become a complete and rounded person, you must embrace… a larger view of Japan.”
March 25th, 2006 at 12:27 pmTo paraphrase Emperor Palpatine, “If one is to become a complete and rounded person, you must embrace… a larger view of Japan.”
Ah. The Force is strong with this one.
March 25th, 2006 at 4:13 pm[...] and young intellectuals’ interest in Japan. This garnered an interesting response on Japundit. Here’s the opening salvo: If you spend enough time in Japan, then you know that ani [...]
March 25th, 2006 at 10:24 pm”There are more than a handful of young “academics” who cite their reason for wanting to come and experience Japanese culture, as their love for anime and manga. I have to figure that’s an automatic disqualification. It prompts me to think, “Get a life.””
I first got interested in Japan through anime way back when i was about 7 and im still interested in it to this day. It led me on to all aspects of Japanese culture, however i would still say it is one of the reasons for wanting to live in Japan. Im studying Business and Japanese and am one of the top students in my class. And in my experience as well all my friends i can think of who watched anime and read manga learnt about other Japanese cultural points as well.
March 26th, 2006 at 9:59 amIts funny that this topic was brought up because some recruiters from Temple university(Tokyo Branch) came to my class last week to encourage Japanese students to consider enrolling in the Tokyo branch. The guy flat out said they were interested in people who showed a genuine interest in Japan whether its anime, martial arts, religion etc. He made a specific point that those interest could be just as important as grades so if your into anime or matial arts (yeah again) be sure to mention it when you apply. If anyone doesn’t believe me just email the Seattle area recuiter via their website.
“On the other hand, how many comic books written 30 years ago are still worth talking about today?”
In a couple years one of the most successul anime/manga franchise of all time Mobile Suite Gundam will be 30 years old with no end in sight.
more common then rereading novels.
“How often does one read a comic book a third time?”
Its very common amongst people who actually read manga.
The real lack of respect for anime and manga exists because so many people try to asses it with very little exposure or knowledge about it. Reading about modern visual culture without immersion just creates a bunch of old ignorant experts who are behind the times.
March 28th, 2006 at 2:57 pmCheers to one and ALL! I am Sandra Whittle and I am trying to learn more about blogs and blogging. Do you know there is a cool WP plug in that lets surfers subscribe to rss feeds by email!
March 31st, 2006 at 1:19 am