As for the term ‘japanophile’, it seems it’s largely down to what people infer from the term, but as this will be different from person to person, it’s impossible to tell what connotations another person may have loaded into what is essentially a neutral term.
But of course in the age of PC it’s the speaker who has to adapt to the sensitive listener and modify his or her language rather than the other way round.

I am the blogger with whom Plunge “got in trouble” — or to clarify, I found his dismissal of non-Japanese citizens who do not criticize Mr. Koizumi’s Yasukuni visits as “Japanophiles” to be incorrect. (Additionally, when someone stoops to using insults in their arguments, it’s a flag that their premise is weak.) The term is offensive, or at least wrongly used, when applied to someone who genuinely understands Japan. A Japanophile is someone who fetishizes certain aspects of the culture from an outsider point of view.

Also, my criticisms of Plunge’s use of logic and the English language aren’t limited to this instance (see comments here and here).

Additional kudos to “Overoften” — when people talk to me about “Asians” in conversation, I tune them right out.

Sounds close to pedophile to me… Anything with ~phile doesn’t sound good.

Strictly speaking, a XXXXXfile is someone who genuinely likes a specific culture, country, religion or “ism”, while a XXXXphobe is someone who hates/loathes it.

So a JapanoPHILE is a good, positive term, always way and always will be. Period.

Someone who might be anti-Japanese would be a Japanophobe, i.e., he or she is PHOBIC about things/people Japanese.

Period.

Referring specifically to the use of the word “Asian”, it’s interesting, Marie, that the accepted US PC term is largely meaningless. At least to me, as it encompasses everyone from eastern Turkey to Japan.
FWIW, in Britain, when news reports “of Asian appearance”, it’s likely to be referring to someone of e.g. Indian or Pakistani descent. So maybe quite different from the north American definition.
And the Japanese themselves of course have their own definition of Asian - everyone in Asia apart from ‘us’!

Yes, you are right. I remember being amused when I lived in Paris and people referred to “L’Orient” which turned out to be a large stretch of land indeed. When I considered grad school, I Oxbridge had “Departments of African and Oriental Studies” which also struck me as a funny way to lump people together.

When I was an undergrad, the standard line was that “Oriental” was only to be used for objects (”Oriental rug,” etc.) and was therefore degrading when used to refer to people.

Yeah, that was the line I got. I think people stopped using “Oriental” so much after Said’s book was published. I imagine in another 30 years we will all be using yet another term.

Collegiate friends and I used “Nihonphile” to refer to Japan fetishists, those obsessed with all things Japanese, who seemed to believe that Japan and the Japanese could do no wrong, and that it was the closest thing to Heaven on Earth, or what I liked to think of as the “Lafcadio Hearn School.” So, yes, it can be derogatory.

Don’t get me wrong, though; I enjoyed my time living in Japan, enjoy my return visits, and would consider living there again if the right opportunity came along. But Japan is perfect just like the U.S. is perfect: not.

Linguistically, the term itself is not negative, nor are any similar terms (e.g., Anglophile). But they seem to have come to refer to someone who has an unhealthy obsession with a certain culture.

Regardless of what the word may have originally meant, language does change over time. What counts is the current perception, and I can see how this term may be perceived as negative.

“Oriental” is definitely not advised these days. “Asian” is much more generally used. Of course, the best method would be to, like some have mentioned, be even more specific about who or what you’re talking about. “Laotians” “Taiwanese” “Fijian” “Phillipino,” etc.

How about Nihongophile? (sounds better in English than Nihonphile.)

Is there such a thing as a japologist?

would that be offensive?

I think the “phile” suffix has a generally unpleasant connotation for some reason — it implies a dilettante rather than a serious scholar, as well as a person prone to affectations.

When I think of an “Anglophile,” for example, I think of an American person who will drink only Twinings tea, while scorning Lipton as “American trash, or who loudly proclaims that only BBC America has any program(me)ing worth watching. Such a person would also of course adore the Royal Family, and might not be above faking a British accent after having had a couple of pints.

This is not to say that those who have abiding interests in other cultures are unlikable — it is rather the self-hatred implicit in making invidious comparisons of one’s own culture to another, and in attempting to be something other than what one is (not to be confused with personal growth.)

So for Japanophiles, I think, I have an unpleasant image of someone who (in addition to perhaps having an Asian sexual fetish,) constantly touts the superiority of manga to other graphic novels, maybe peppers his or her speech with bits of Nihongo (even when no one else understands it,) and has room for little in life that does not pertain to Japan.

Just my take on it.

Right-Wing-Neo-Facist-Pro-Japanese, and the like

Well, that’s more like it.
At least you won’t be calling people Japanophiles!

Uh, isn’t it obvious that “Japanophile” is a label which plays on the connotations surrounding “pedophile”? Both end in “phile”, both are associated with fixed, particular sexual attractions, and the idea is that both are therefore (supposedly) similarly perverse.

You know..it’s really funny. The thing about the Japan-haters is that it is not enough that they hate everything or are jealous of Japan. They go one step further and get fuming angry when other people who are entirely entitled to their own opinion express admiration or positive feelings about any aspect of Japan.

I have also noticed that many of these people who are “Japanophile-haters” are themselves “Chinaphiles” or “Koreaphiles”. They can’t just leave it at criticizing Japan…they have to go one step further and express hatred and disdain at any foreigner who praises Japan.

Case and point, usually the Japan-haters are actually just a few in number but use multiple identies on various boards and forums on the internet to give the false appearance of increased numbers. Usually, they will go into their usual tirade of about how Japan needs to compensate the rest of Asia because someone’s great great grandfather was killed in WWII, etc. Then, another poster will come in and write about some excellent sushi that they ate or will say how beautiful the sakura blossoms in Kyoto are. This will make the Japan-hater FUMING angry since to them, it is unthinkable that any positive comments about Japan will be allowed. This will then spark a tirade of how sakura blossoms in their favorite nations (usually, N.Korea or China) are much more beautiful or about how Kyoto is a terrible city…or that sushi is really a Korean or Chinese invention but that only the sushi in Japan is bad, etc.

Very quite humorous to watch from a third person perspective. In fact, observing the actions of these “Korea/China-phile” Japan-haters is quite like Jane Goodall observing the behavior of chimpanzees in the wild.

Funny, I think you can say the same thing about Korea-haters and China-haters as well.

[...] ertaining discussion of the term “Japanophile” over at Plunge Pontificates and Japundit. On a related-but-not-entirely note, Zack the shakuhachi player (in this c [...]

Zzzzzz…

I think the problem with terms like “Japanophile” is that such labels invariably oversimplify. You call someone a “Japanophile” and in your own mind you believe you have understood that person, his or her attitude, etc.

The problem, as we have seen in the posts here, is that such terms mean different things to different people.

Ampotan states above that he has a “strong preference for Japan, many of its customs, and a lot of its people. I’d rather live here than in the US….” In what I imagine is still a simplified version of his feelings, he has already managed to express far more depth than could ever be expressed by the single word “Japanophile.”

And just to put a personal spin on it, I find that Japanese people tend to express emotions in this kind of labelling, over-simplified way. At least in public.

The word “hazukashii,” for example, is vastly overused in Japan. Any time anyone ever feels even vaguely uncomfortable, it becomes “hazukashii.” So, in effect, “hazukashii” means something like “almost any feeling that is not good, especially if felt in the presence of others.” I know I’m overgeneralizing a bit, but I think students and speakers of Japanese (even Japanese speakers of Japanese) will see what I mean. I hope so, anyway.

This sort of thing happens in English, I’m sure (can’t think of an example at the moment…), and other languages, but it happens a lot in Japanese. And it presents the same problems as labels such as “Japanophile”: it really isn’t what I’m feeling, but saying it seems to satisfy people’s expectations.

So, calling someone a “Japanophile” is really just making yourself feel as though your expectations have been satisfied: “Ah, so-and-so is a Japanophile; I got HIS number!”

Am I way off-base here? What does everyone think?

To 36. No it is not. However, Japanophiles are better than Koreaphiles posting under different aliases, pretending to be non-Koreans making irrational anti-Japan statements, just so they can reply under a different alias to make it look as though the number of Japan-haters is greater than that it actually is. As you say, anything goes on the internet.

couldn’t we just say someone is a henna gaijin and leave it at that?:smile:

and there’s nothing wrong with being a henna gaijin, either….

Yeah the part that could make the connotation a negative one, is the -phile part. We all know that -phile doesn’t have a good connotation when referring to other types.

PS - I suggested “Nihongophile” earlier, because it seems like the other famous -philes, anglo- and franco-, are related to the terms for the languages associated w/ those cultures, and those who speak them: anglophone, francophone. So it would follow that a Japanese speaker could be a Nihongophone (there isn’t any Latinized equivalent of “Japan,” for obvious historical reasons, and that’s the problem with this whole construction). If you’re making a backwards construction, surely this is less awkward - but also less obvious to those with only passing knowledge of any form of Japanese culture.

[...] of cyberspace. This has an effect on the expat, too — if Japan creates “the creepy Japanophile,” Korea produces the bitchy [...]