How To Learn Japanese
Oh wise Japundits, please help me with a Christmas gift.
There’s a special person in my life who claims he is determined to learn some speaking Japanese by next April. He’d like to do this via CD/tape/DVD.
I went to the new Kinokunia in New York recently (more on that later) to look at study kits. I am not the best person to make the call as to which he should use. Genki looked pretty comprehensive, and I always see their ads all over the Japan Times. But it also looks like dense material, and I’m not sure that the person for whom the gift is intended really needs to learn to read and write.
Other guides look, well, a little shallow.
So, all you out there who have struggled with listening and speaking, do you have a study guide you can recommend? Thanks in advance.
How ’bout JapanesePod101.com? Instead of spending the money on a book and CD combo, plow it into the premium subscription for three or six months or a full year. The lessons include the audio, kanji worksheets, notes and audio sentence-by-sentence. You can trial out everything for free for one week. And that way your friend can work at his own pace (or pace around with it on his iPod).
I’ve had my subscription since shortly after it came on… ah… on pod(?) and I was so impressed with the site that I forked out the money for a year-long subscription, even though by the time I’d flicked out my credit card, my initial enthusiasm to learn the language had flagged. But as a language resource, I was really impressed and wanted to support it’s development.
The end of my subscription is Dec. 12th, actually. I’m hoping they’ll have another one-day birthday rate again on that day. Then I’ll sign up and download and not listen for another year.
I do believe I’m still hoping that this ‘learning through magical absortion’ theory works… .
I also liked the Pimsleur Japanese series - but after Lesson 3, the tendency was to assume you’re a tourist visiting the country and asking a lot of tourist/business questions.
December 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pmA sleeping dictionary
- No serious, I agree with Betty that JapanesePod101.com is an option.
December 9th, 2007 at 5:53 pmI like Pimsleur because you learn words backwards which seems to help me hear the whole word, not just a mash of unfamiliar syllables.
December 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmI like Rosetta Stone because it uses pictures which creates a sort of vocabulary link in my brain. Kind of adding the Japanese words to my general vocabulary, not just the “ok, now I’m trying to speak Japanese” one.
“There’s a special person in my life who claims he is determined to learn some speaking Japanese by next April. He’d like to do this via CD/tape/DVD.”
Buy him some J-porn.
December 9th, 2007 at 9:09 pmThus, he will learn the basis of the Japanese language.
I was wondering what your friend’s goal is. If it’s just for personal edification, it sounds like the commenters above had some great ideas. But if he/she is hoping to be able to have even a basic conversation with a Japanese person, they should think twice. 5 months of self study is probably not going to cut it. I know dozens of people who learned Japanese as a second language, and of those who can even hold a basic conversation, none of them got there through self-study. They all had a teacher. There’s only one exception: a friend who spent several years in the Japanese countryside with a lot of free time managed to self-educate. Either way, wishing your friend good luck!
December 9th, 2007 at 11:20 pmThe Jorden and Noda textbooks “Japanese: The Spoken Language” (parts 1 and 2) focus on grammar and speaking/listening. If you want to learn reading/writing, they’re not very good, but they’re pretty good for correct conversational Japanese (they start out with desu/masu forms, not dictionary/casual forms). All the conversations are written out in Romaji, so your friend could focus on what to say rather than reading hiragana/kanji. I think they come with audio tapes. There is a written (hiragana/kanji) textbook that you can also get, but for your average casual learner, learning katakana, hiragana and some common kanji is more than enough.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:49 amThanks everyone!
I was trying not to get too personal, but this is for my new husband, who was sad he couldn’t understand anything that the Japanese were saying at the wedding. I could understand that Scots (mostly), but Japanese was beyond him.
So, when we go to Japan in April (hi JP!), he’d like to be able to exchange a little bit with people.
This is all a long way of thanking you nice people again–and letting Vittel know that porn is out of the question!
December 10th, 2007 at 2:55 amWedding photos!! Wedding photos!! We (OK - me) want wedding photos!!
December 10th, 2007 at 5:53 amBetty — I kind of decided a while ago never to put photos of myself on Japundit if I could help it. And as it is, I’m still waiting to receive the professional photos! But if you hop over to my blog and scroll down, you’ll catch a glimpse of what it all looked like. Like you, I always like to see wedding pictures.
December 10th, 2007 at 7:04 amGirls and their weddings …
December 10th, 2007 at 7:06 amI wanna see the dress decision as it played out. Obis n’ kilts n’ all
December 10th, 2007 at 7:51 amJapanese for Busy People (kana version) helped me a lot in my early studies. The workbook helped with writing and the tapes helped with listening. However, I would recommend a teacher to help him get the fundamentals. Language study is a long process and a good teacher is a blessing.
December 10th, 2007 at 12:52 pmIt’s a minor point, and while I recognize that you’re looking for material to help with spoken Japanese (as opposed to written), I suggest that you avoid presenting your special someone with anything that requires him to read romaji. It’d be like a Japanese person trying to learn English using katakana. Quite counter-productive, in my opinion.
December 10th, 2007 at 1:10 pmJapanese For Busy People - good way to get started.
December 10th, 2007 at 4:55 pmWould following ” Learn Japanese Websites ” info help ?
Two weekly lessons including one easy and one more advanced.
http://www.nhk.or.jp/lesson/english/index.html
Free ipod Japanese lessons. Humorous dialogues keep it interesting.
http://www.japanesepod101.com/
Teaches kanas and Kanji. Includes online kanji testing.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:50 pmhttp://www.kanjisite.com/index.html
Ok, I’ll write something serious for once : to me, the best learning materials are a dictionnary and a grammar book.
Books/CD that offer a learning methodology suck.
With a dictionary and a grammar book, it’s up to you to build your own methodology. Obviously, you’ll find the one that works the best for you, as long as you’re truly motivated.
The problem is that J-lessons books/CDs are for people who think that they will know how to speak Japanese just by opening the book or by listening to the CD.
I’ve met so many people like that. They were unable to construct any sentence when I could handle a casual conversation after just 6 months of self-teaching with a dictionary and a grammar book.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:57 amYou’re so right, RYO. And that’s one reason I wanted to ask for advice. I know how I would want someone to study Japanese–I’d want them to at least learn hiragana and katakana. It’s the best way to teach pronunciation and to get rid of westernized dipthongs when pronouncing Japanese words.
But, this is a busy person and I don’t want to scare him off. Personally, I think it would be hard to learn Japanese from scratch. But I’m also not a great judge because I grew up speaking it (to some degree!).
Thanks all, again. No one seems to have recommended genki. I’ll go take a look at all the suggestions.
And Betty Woo–I’ll think about that! Thanks for taking a look. It was all so much fun.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:58 amI totally disagree with RYO.
No need to learn Kanjis, Hiragana and Katakana when the only one thing you want to do is to understand spoken Japanese and to say things in Japanese.
I’ve started to learn kanjis after I knew how to speak and later, I even found out that I could write Japanese with the help of a computer without barely knowing the kanjis. And lastly, I’ve never had to write anything by hand in Japanese.
December 11th, 2007 at 2:06 am“No need to learn Kanjis, Hiragana and Katakana when the only one thing you want to do is to understand spoken Japanese and to say things in Japanese.”
Just to clarify, I’m not suggesting that it is necessary to learn hiragana, katakana, or especially kanji in order to grasp the basics of spoken Japanese. I am explicitly suggesting that romaji be avoided, especially for male students (who probably tend to learn visually more so than female students).
December 11th, 2007 at 3:47 amWhat’s the problem with using romaji?
To the contrary, using romaji helps to assimilate a larger quantity of words.
What I used was long lists of words with two columns. One column was the French words, the other column was the Japanese words in Romaji.
The trick was to look mostly at the French words and try to remember the Japanese equivalent as quickly as possible. When you read words in your own language, you don’t really read it, so it leaves room for the Japanese word you’re trying to assimilate. It’s some kind of automatic learning method that I found very efficient, especially during conversations when some Japanese words could effortlessly pop up in my mind although I’had never used them before.
December 11th, 2007 at 4:50 amI found that learning vocabulary *and* grammar *and* kanji *and* hirgana *and* katakana was too much for my simple needs.
I’d much rather be able to have a basic conversation first (if for no other reason than keeping my interest in the language fresh). That’s why I like the language podcasts and Pimsleurs conversational CDs.
Once I feel comfortable and used to the language, then I don’t mind switching from romanji to the ‘proper’ forms of writing. I also find that I make a quicker transition from romanji to the other forms if I have enough of a conversational language background to make aural comparisons to.
I guess it also depends on how much time you want to devote to this. I was doing 90 minutes every Saturday starting at 9AM. It just wasn’t enough time to really explore the conversational aspect of the language, not to mention the poor sensei was trying to fit in hirigana, katakana and kanji… .
It might have something to do with the age of the learner, too. When I was younger, I might have been able to handle a lot of different information coming at me at once. Now? I’m more of a linear thinker - I learn one aspect well and I use that to hop onto another aspect. I’ll learn the same amount of information at the end of a semester but I’ll just learn it in a different sequence.
Unfortunately, a lot of language programs aren’t geared to adult learning :::sigh:::.
December 11th, 2007 at 5:44 amI like vittel’s advice on learning Japanese. The grammer book and dictionary method works best for me, as well. CD’s, tapes, flash cards, etc not so much. I prefer the nuts and bolts approach. On the other hand, I like hiragana and kanji. Understanding these beautiful characters are a big part of the appeal of Japanese, if you ask me.Besides, there aren’t too many Japanese speakers around here to converse with, anyway, so I’m putting most of my energy into reading it. That way I’ll be able to read all these stacks of hentai manga I’ve been collecting someday.
December 11th, 2007 at 10:00 pmI try to learn one new Japanese word each month. I was zenzen last month. This month it’s “kai” as in yon kai.
December 12th, 2007 at 12:51 amOne word every month???
December 12th, 2007 at 5:44 amWith my lists I went up to 20 words per day.
yeah I’ll learn “domo” in February, then maybe “arigato” in March. I should try harder
December 12th, 2007 at 9:45 amIs your family name “Martin”?
December 12th, 2007 at 12:36 pmyeah riki martin, you can see my homepage http://www.rickymartin.com/
December 12th, 2007 at 9:03 pmFirst of all, don’t use whatever you got that sentence from.
It means “What are you doing this week?”, not “What are you doing this weekend?”
December 12th, 2007 at 9:37 pmI have heard good things about the Genki series. Very good things, in fact. Never used them myself, though. However, the people who have told me the series was very good were all serious language studiers. They were working hard on their Japanese.
If someone really wanted to learn Japanese and would be putting some time/effort into it, I would also recommend going hiragana from the start. From your post, though, it sounded like this would be very casual and so removing all barriers/intimidation at the start seemed the best way to go. He can always pick up Hiragana and Katakana later, but if he gets overwhelmed at the start by memorizing them then he’ll never progress.
December 12th, 2007 at 9:52 pmMy Penton Overseas cds were a big help and I learned many things while driving to work. Honestly though, your best bet is to teach him yourself. He’ll learn the most from repetition and actual usage.
I did learn from my trip to Japan that learning polite phrases and knowing numbers was a huge boon. Being able to properly thank people and to properly introduce yourself makes life much easier in the long run. It’s also nice to be able to count out the proper coin when someone tells you the price, especially if you’re in a rural area where there are no cash registers, and you’re the only one around that speaks english.
My apologies if I’m repeating something you already know. Good luck and congratulations!
December 13th, 2007 at 11:30 amI just found this today… and it’s 10% off!
http://www.thinkmac.co.uk/ikana/index.html
Only 2 058 yen or $18.25ish CAN/US
It seems pretty neato, actually. Perhaps I’ll buy it (and not use it) to add to my other Japanese learning materials (that I don’t use).
Anybody use this before?
December 19th, 2007 at 10:57 amLooks good, but yeah I’m not buying anymore learning material until I actually use some of the stuff I’ve previously bought.
December 19th, 2007 at 2:55 pmDamn!! I have no self control, just bought a copy
December 19th, 2007 at 5:38 pmDamn! Me, too. It just looked so neato.
December 20th, 2007 at 1:38 amSpeaking of learning a few words a day - look what just came into my inbox: Japanesepod101.com has a new feature. It’s a daily two-minute video containing 10 Japanese words, along with study guides.
The perfect thing to download onto your new iPod Nano. OK. my new 8G iPod that I needed like a hole in the head considering my trusty 14-month-old 2G Nano was never even filled to the brim. Honestly, I have no idea why I had that sudden consumer moment. Not like me at all… .
But it must be lingering since I bought the iKana license and Overflow (a Mac dock cleaner-upper).
OK. Tangent over. Back to Japanesepod101.com goodies!
There’s a demonstration of this at: http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/12/19/vocab-video/
And, to top it off, from now until the end of the month, enter coupon ‘code25OFF’ and receive a 25% discount off any basic or premium subscription on the site.
I just know I’ll end up getting something. Did I mention the last time I opened a Japanese language book was some time in the early fall of last year? I’m pathetique… .
December 21st, 2007 at 12:03 pmBetty, you rock.
Question for you. When you got this “service,” did it start you at the very, very beginning, and assume you knew nothing? Or are you sort of thrown in.
My cursory look at the website didn’t really tell me how it handles very very beginners. Is there a standard “Lesson 1″?
Thanks, everyone, for all the input. I’m really grateful, and I’m sure there are other people out there too who have found the information useful.
December 21st, 2007 at 12:21 pmOh, yeah. They have a wide variety of levels, surival phrases, videos, audio blogs, etc.
I just checked my subscription through iTunes. All the missing lessons between the last day of my old subscription and the new one I just paid for 10 minutes ago appear in the selection menu. But I’m not sure what it would look like if I was a brand new subscriber.
I think the free audio/video service has a truncated selection of only the last 20-ish lessons of all types, including Beginners Season 2, if you want a fly-by listen. They also offer a 7-day trial for, I think, the premium service. But, again, I’m not sure offhand how far back the lessons can go. My impression is that they open subscribers to all the lessons.
Funny. While I was typing in my credit card info, I was thinking that they’d be very lucky to get someone like you to join their team. They really do sound like they have a lot of fun and are energetic and I’ve always had very good response times when I’ve made enquiries.
And I can see they’re also branching out to Korean and English, too, as well as separate sites specific to topics (like SurvivalPhrases, etc.).
Just watching the site evolve (I think I knew of it within its first month) has been fascinating. Which may explain why paying $135 for a full subscription for a year seemed perfectly OK
Finally - a premium one-month subscription is just $25US. It would make a great cyberstocking stuffer for anyone who’s interested in Japanese but doesn’t really want to sit down over a book.
December 21st, 2007 at 12:37 pm