I was not talking merely about Leah Dizon when referencing the childish attitudes in Japan concerning male-female relationships. Examples of what I refer to are rife in the entertainment world and in real life in Japan.

Are the drops in the marriage and birth rates in Japan really due to current economic conditions and lack of government support?

Found the following here.

Japan’s fertility rate has been declining since 1950, with the country experiencing its sharpest fertility decline between 1950 and 1960. In 1950, the average woman had about 3.65 births in her lifetime which dropped to 2.0 by 1960. Although the rate of decrease has slowed, the trend has remained persistently downward with the birthrate standing at an all-time low of 1.33 children per woman in 2001.

The above makes it sound like the birthrate has been falling for a long time, through both good times and bad, and through times when the government was providing plenty of “social welfare” for raising kids.

Leah can marry whoever she wants. Interesting is that in Japan there is increasing number of mixed marriages. Means more hapa kids
http://japansugoi.com/wordpress/japan-becoming-a-more-mixed-society/

Well, Tofu Union, that’s about the fifth or sixth unsupported reason you snatched out of thin air in an attempt to explain away Japan’s declining birthrate.

However, the gist of the above piece is the childish attitudes of Japanese society towards male-female relationships.

I have to agree that this article seems to have issues.

:::Warning::: My posts in various places sometimes seem a little rant like. That is not my intent. I am a bit of a techi. I just tend to put facts out as I see them, and don’t always have as much tact as I should. If you keep that in mind while you read, the results are less agitating. :::End Warning:::

Actually LIVING in Japan, I see the “attitudes in Japan concerning male-female relationships” on a daily basis.

I would have to say that those attitudes vary from highly conservative to outright immoral, just the same as in every modern nation.

There are a few points you are missing here. Watch your video again, and listen to the tones in the crowd. The overall sound was of general surprise mixed with a ting of excitement.

Also consider the nation of the Japanese media. Negative sells. If they found even one detractor in the audience, they are going to make it out as “The fans are pissed.” Even if everyone else was excited. Why? Because angst and drama sell better than happy cheerful things.

As for the drop in fertility rates, there have been a number valid and reasonable reasons for the drop stated, and rather than do the research to see that he was right, you posted responses shooting him down. The research is there, look it up.

A few of the biggest reasons are (and these are mostly reasons you already shot down, just worded from a different perspective):

A change in how the Japanese people look at marriage:

When pre-arranged marriages stopped being the norm, the number of marriages dropped. The Japanese people as a whole have been relearning the entire concept of courtship since the fifties or so. Many Japanese women feel that Japanese men are still trying to figure out their own role in the process. That is why some Japanese girls take such an interest in foreign men. In countries that have not had such drastic changes recently, the men do not hesitate as much as they do in Japan. Even a shy European gets to the point fairly quickly.

Marriage is not automatically “expected” any more, and there are many more women entering the workforce and deciding they like it there. In Japanese society there is still the expectation that a wife will not work much, and when she does it is simply for savings for things for the children.

Another factor that can influence this, the Japanese view of age. this applies to men and women. A Japanese citizen of twenty to twenty four years of age is still a child in the eyes of Japanese society. In Japanese society, a thirty five year old is considered a young adult. The age of majority in Japan is 20, not 18 as it is in the US and many European influenced countries.

As far as the modern Japanese populous is concerned, this has the same kind of general feel to it as a 17 year old movie star getting married would in the states. It would shock and surprise people.

As for her own personal reactions, getting pregnant means dropping a lot of contracts. That is a big thing in Japan. She is basically telling her fans that she will be out of the picture for a while. That is not childishness, that is a reflection of the system of Honor and Obligation that is still very much a part of Japanese society. It is still at the core of Japanese society. Is that good or bad, who knows?

Here are some links to look at:
An article from the Japan Research Institute, Limited:
http://www.jri.co.jp/english/press/press_html/2006/060426.html

Here is an article that is put out by the Statistics Bureau, so it is very dry reading. It suggests that the decline in population is due to an increase in the average marriage age, and thus the average age of mothers at birth. It also suggests a connection between fertility rates and the economic health of the country.
http://www.stat.go.jp/english/data/handbook/c02cont.htm

Here is an article from a main stream newspaper. Again, economics are sited. Especially the idea that men are overworked, and women are more inclined to work instead of marrying because of stability worries.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/IF08Dh01.html
Here is an article from the Daily Yomiuri:
http://www.globalaging.org/ruralaging/world/japanaging.htm
Again, marrying ages and economics are sited as potential reasons for the decline.

From what I have seen, I suspect that TofuUnion has done his homework on the issue of declining population. These articles substantiate most of his assertions, and I was able to track them down with a little bit of time on google.

This will be my last comment on this post.

Actually LIVING in Japan, I see the “attitudes in Japan concerning male-female relationships” on a daily basis.

Good for you. Where do you think a great deal of the other people who hang out here live?

I would have to say that those attitudes vary from highly conservative to outright immoral, just the same as in every modern nation.

It seems like you are talking about Japanese attitudes towards sex. This post is about attitudes towards male-female relationships, as in the way someone acts when they are asked if they have a boyfriend/girlfriend, the way people react when it is discovered that a twenty-something female member of a group went out on a date last week, when an entertainer announces her marriage and begs the audience not to toss her aside, etc.

There are a few points you are missing here. Watch your video again, and listen to the tones in the crowd. The overall sound was of general surprise mixed with a ting of excitement.

Nope. Don’t get that at all.

Also consider the nation of the Japanese media. Negative sells. If they found even one detractor in the audience, they are going to make it out as “The fans are pissed.” Even if everyone else was excited. Why? Because angst and drama sell better than happy cheerful things.

Here it sounds like you are taking characteristics of the U.S. media and applying them to the Japanese media. I would posit that the Japanese media tends more to present examples that reinforce what they want to represent as norms, rather than what goes against them.

As for the drop in fertility rates, there have been a number valid and reasonable reasons for the drop stated, and rather than do the research to see that he was right, you posted responses shooting him down. The research is there, look it up.

//snip//

As I said above, this post is not about the Japanese birthrate. It is about childish attitudes towards male-female relationships.

As for her own personal reactions, getting pregnant means dropping a lot of contracts. That is a big thing in Japan. She is basically telling her fans that she will be out of the picture for a while. That is not childishness, that is a reflection of the system of Honor and Obligation that is still very much a part of Japanese society.

For some reason, this remark gives me the impression that you have not lived in Japan very long.

Errr….. If you read what I wrote above, you will see that I reached my conclusion based upon “stories we have seen here on JAPUNDIT and on my own personal experiences,” and that “The post is not about Leah Dizon, her popularity, the volume of her record sales, or what she decides to do in her private life. Her video was included to highlight the main thrust of the comment”.

Believe me, I am not new to Japan and I fully understand what is going on around me.

Edward Chmura:

I am sorry if I offended. My post was a little rough.

My response was mostly to the fact that in your responses to Tofu Union you never stated what you stated to me, you simply said he was wrong and moved on.

I still do not agree with your overall assertion, but I better understand you position on the post. I concede that my post was out of line.

From the standpoint of someone whose spoken Japanese is not perfect, I think a lot of what might be interpreted as childish is simply someone who is not completely fluent in the language. I get frustrated myself because I can only express myself sometimes in a very similified way.